Curse

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Now that we have 7 heroes and mercenaries, PVE is really really easy. Some people dont like this and might want to make it more challenging for fun.

I've had an idea for a long time now that I have been wanting to try out for fun, and having 7 heroes and mercenaries has made it possible.

Play the game with nothing other than core skills and professions. No prophecies skills, nothing from factions, nothing from nightfall, and nothing from EOTN.

Feel free to play whatever you want doing this, whether its a mission or a vanq in any of the chapters, and try to do it in HM.

And to make it more fun, try doing it without any consumables. Not even pumpkin cookies.

If you want to take this challenge to the extreme and since the survivor title resets now, try and get survivor as well from only using core skills. I strongly suggest NOT attempting this in hard mode

If anyone wants to do any of this, then feel free to post your builds, what part of the game you are playing, screenshots and anything else you want to share in this thread. You can play whatever part of the game you want from prophecies to EOTN, even DOA if you want to get a real whooping, or something a bit easier but still challenging like sorrows furnace.

Arieon Ito · Mar 04, 2011, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Or you could always try like what people used to do for Final Fantasy.

Single Class Only.
With Merc Heroes you can pretty much create a team of 8 with the same profession. The limit would be that you couldn't use skills from a secondary.

There would be some professions that would get through it pretty easy (Like 8 monks) but the rest might have a slightly harder time.

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 06:45 AM // 06:45

I just did my first vanq using core skills and a balanced team, it was actually easier than I thought it would be, but I died once, and my heroes died a few times:

A few build errors I made:

- No hard res. The only core hard resses are rebirth and resurrect. I hardly ever use my res sig so I will take rebirth instead.

- No prot spirit. The monks are already under very heavy pressure and wouldnt be able to cope with prot spirit. However, both me + vekk had plenty of energy to spare with elemental attunement. I also took flare on vekk which is pretty pointless because he has enough attacks skills, so I can change flare to prot spirit.

- I forgot to put Empathy on my mesmer. Empathy would have really been a lot more useful in bigger fights.

- I never needed to use GOLE with my elite, and my damage was lame. I should try switching to a Lightning Surge build instead of earth, I was having to heavily rely on obsidian flame for damage which left me far too exhausted.

HM is very manageable with 7 heroes using core skills, and the team balance is a very nice change from always running gimicky builds like spiritway, discordway and other stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arieon Ito

Or you could always try like what people used to do for Final Fantasy.

Single Class Only.
With Merc Heroes you can pretty much create a team of 8 with the same profession. The limit would be that you couldn't use skills from a secondary.

There would be some professions that would get through it pretty easy (Like 8 monks) but the rest might have a slightly harder time.

Using this idea, I really wanted to make a balanced team. I took one hero of each core profession plus two monks, and since I'm an elly I had two of those. Words cant describe how dire core skilled ellys are in HM, they are pure suckage - 18 damage from stone daggers, and only 58 damage from Stoning with 16 Earth. I had to convert all the blue on my energy bar to gray from mashing obsidian flame all the time. So I'm going to try fire + air next since Air magic has some armor penetration.

Oh, but if I change to air, I wont have a melee ward :x. Ward Against Melee with flags + Aegis chain is pretty much what kept my party alive through most of the vanq.

Squishy ftw · Mar 04, 2011, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Shouldn't be that hard imo, I've already vanquished with loads of funky builds. I'd probably go with something like:

Me on 100B warrior
Some MM build with PS/Aegis
E-Surge mesmer with whatever
Water ele with ward support
Barrage ranger with some random atk skills
Something that can bring MoP/Weaken/Enfeebling
2x WoH heal stuff

Might be too defensive though but it should be fine in most HM stuff (perhaps not elite areas ...)

AndrewSX · Mar 04, 2011, 07:01 AM // 07:01

You feel PvE is too easy?

Stick using 3heroes only + henc. End of the problem.

P.S: i think i'll use immediatly 7heroes for do hardest dungeons(kath,soo,fmaw...) and speed up eotn vanquishes remaining. Maybe when i'll be bored i'll return in those places using only 3 heroes.

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Heroes are pure suckage though, I hate them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

Shouldn't be that hard imo, I've already vanquished with loads of funky builds. I'd probably go with something like:

Me on 100B warrior
Some MM build with PS/Aegis
E-Surge mesmer with whatever
Water ele with ward support
Barrage ranger with some random atk skills
Something that can bring MoP/Weaken/Enfeebling
2x WoH heal stuff

Might be too defensive though but it should be fine in most HM stuff (perhaps not elite areas ...)

Thats a good idea, I could try water + melee ward, and change my elly hero for another necro. One curses nec, and one MM.

awry · Mar 04, 2011, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

You feel PvE is too easy?

Stick using 3heroes only + henc. End of the problem.

P.S: i think i'll use immediatly 7heroes for do hardest dungeons(kath,soo,fmaw...) and speed up eotn vanquishes remaining. Maybe when i'll be bored i'll return in those places using only 3 heroes.

The whole point is to show skill vs op skills. An effective micromanager can bring the best out of a mediocre bar.

Eragon Zarroc · Mar 04, 2011, 07:28 AM // 07:28

I'll play in basic armor while i'm at it with lvl 4 weapons

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 07:42 AM // 07:42

I updated my builds, though I forgot to put Rebirth on my bar.

BIP on an MM with Blood of the Master? Erm ..... Maybe I should just take tainted flesh

I'll try some more vanqs later.

Improvavel · Mar 04, 2011, 08:30 AM // 08:30

The thing that leaps to my eye is the low hit points. The casters have too much energy.

Any reason for lingering curse over SS? It should generate more pressure.

I would forget botm - you want the minions to die anyway.

You can always replace one of you monks with a N/Mo - they can do it pretty nicely, especially in the protection department with soul reaping.

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

The thing that leaps to my eye is the low hit points. The casters have too much energy.

Any reason for lingering curse over SS? It should generate more pressure.

I would forget botm - you want the minions to die anyway.

You can always replace one of you monks with a N/Mo - they can do it pretty nicely, especially in the protection department with soul reaping.

1) Some of my heroes dont have vigor runes yet, and they are mostly using hourglass staffs which is +45 hp when enchanted.

2) SS isnt a core skill. I am trying to stay away from all those yummy proph skills like SS, Channeling, Unyieding Aura etc

. It would be just as easy as playing discordway otherwise

3) Thats a good idea, I forgot about that when I changed to death nova. I tried out Tainted flesh a bit though, and the AI is really good at it.

4) A WoH + Prot N/Mo could be a nice idea! I might try that out too.

galactic · Mar 04, 2011, 09:01 AM // 09:01

think pve too easy? run one healer

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by galactic

think pve too easy? run one healer

Better yet, make sure that healer is your character

Xenomortis · Mar 04, 2011, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Replace Orison with Mend Condition or DKiss.
Give the MM Aura of the Lich. I'd look at replacing Deathly Swarm with hex removal or something.
Consider Panic.
Consider SS over Lingering Curse.

Kunder · Mar 04, 2011, 12:21 PM // 12:21

TBH, the hardest thing would probably be remembering exactly what the core skills were. Normal mode is definitely still easy, I doubt hard mode would be too bad outside of the elite areas. The simple fact that you can make a MM, even sans masochism, should make it fairly simple. With 2 MMs worth of minions you can just sit back and watch the game finish. Who needs anything more than Animate Bone Fiends + Blood of the Master?

If you want a worthy challenge, what I did after my LDoA was go through prophecies in HM cold turkey, without heroes. If you want to ratchet it up further and be truly hardcore, I didn't get a run to higher level areas for armor (though I did use tomes, but no cons). TBH I had it easy as a mesmer (lol panic/PI/Keystone), it might be near impossible for a few classes.

EDIT: OK, I see you already found core skills only easy. You might try single class only (no secondary) + no elites on anyone. IMO, if you want to be forced to start thinking about creative builds immediately drop your elite and then figure out what you should work with. Though its still biased towards OP stuff like necromancers and rits.

Dzjudz · Mar 04, 2011, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Replace Orison with Mend Condition or DKiss.
Give the MM Aura of the Lich. I'd look at replacing Deathly Swarm with hex removal or something.
Consider Panic.
Consider SS over Lingering Curse.

I think you are confusing Core Skills (skills available in all campaigns) with Prophecies Skills (skills only available in prophecies)

List of core skills.

Lishy · Mar 04, 2011, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Here's challenges to those that find it too easy:
1. Vanquish with only 4 heroes.
2. Using Warriors as monk healers
3. No compass (Or minimap!)

LifeInfusion · Mar 04, 2011, 05:36 PM // 17:36

No UI. DVDF did it before iirc, but with full human party. Should be easy since "you can win pve with a blank skillbar"

Anything else is lame, because self-gimping is no fun.

No elites is a good one though.
"play as a person with minimal unlocks" is a good one too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Better yet, make sure that healer is your character

I do it all the time, braindead easy with imba or especially soultwist rit.

Xenomortis · Mar 04, 2011, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

I think you are confusing Core Skills (skills available in all campaigns) with Prophecies Skills (skills only available in prophecies)

List of core skills.

Oh, sorry. I read "core and prophecies skills" instead of "core skills and professions" (I assumed core profs regardless).

pingu666 · Mar 04, 2011, 09:56 PM // 21:56

use assassin heros? with frenzy